«Asnulfu, s umata, d amsal n umaynut s wayen yellan yakan. Lavoisier, amassan n tekrura, yeǧǧa-d awal : « Rien ne se crée, rien ne se perd, tout se transforme. » Ula di tẓuri, ula di tsekla, akka i ḍerrunt temsal. Ulac la création ex nihilo. Asnulfu aseklan ihi d amsal n wayen yellan yakan, am wakken txeddem tmeṭṭut di tenwalt (takuzint) : ad tessexleḍ buhan n yisafaren n wučči, ad ten-terwi, ad d-tessufeɣ tigella, ta bninet, tayeḍ txuss. Neẓra, lxalat tiɛewwacin, tid yessnen ad nawlent, qlilit… am yimura. » i-d-yenna Kamal Buɛmara.
- Tangalt : Amek i nezmer ad d-nesbadu azɣan aseklan, s umata ? Yadṛa nezmer ad d-nini nesɛa azɣan aseklan di teqbaylit ?
Kamal Buɛmara : S umata, azɣan aseklan d inaw i d-yewwin ɣef uḍris n tsekla, ama d tin n zik (timawit), ama d tamirant. Tin ɣur-s, inawen ɣef tsekla zemren ad ilin d imawen, am widak i d-ttawin di tedwilin n rradyu, n tiliẓri (TV4, BRTV, TQ5, …), di YouTube ; zemren ad ilin ttwarun, ama s teqbaylit, ama s tutlayin tiberraniyin (tafransist, taɛrabt, taglizit). Inawen-a nettaf-iten deg yiɣmisen (am tdiwenniyin i d-ttakken imeskaren), di tesɣunin, di facebook, maca llant daɣen tezrawin (master, magister dukṭura) i d-yettawin ɣef yiḍrisen n tsekla taqbaylit. Aredqal ad d-nuɣal ɣer temsal-a s umqat.
- Adlis-a tessuffɣeḍ-t-id yakan deg tezrigt tumḍint lulu.com s uzwel Tamacahut-iw lwad lwad. Acuɣer i as-tbeddleḍ azwel tikkelt-a, tessuffɣeḍ-t-id s lkaɣeḍ ɣer tezrigin Imru?
K.B. D tidet, sufɣeɣ-d di lulu.com Tamacahut lwad lwad, d adlis ideg llant 14 n tmucuha timzikanin. Maca rniɣ-d iḍrisen-nniḍen, wa wezzil, wa ɣezzif, sufɣeɣ-t-id d ammud s talɣa n lkaɣeḍ, giɣ-as isem Tislit n Wenẓar…Gar yiḍrisen i d-rniɣ, ad naf yiwet n tmacahut i d-snulfaɣ nekki, d Credma d sebɛa n watmaten-is ; rniɣ-d daɣen yiwet n tsuqqilt i giɣ di tazwara n 1990, d Tuɣalin n weqcic ijaḥen n André Gide. Llan daɣen yiḍrisen-nniḍen i tɣuri.
- Tuget n tmucuha i d-tesseddaḍ deg wammud-a d timucuha timzikanin n Leqbayel, meɛna d asuɣel i tent-id-tessuqleḍ seg tefransist ɣer teqbaylit. Acuɣer ? D acu i d iswi-inek?
K.B. D asteqsi igerrzen mliḥ. Zemreɣ, am wakken i gan yimeskaren-nniḍen – aṭas i yellan !– ad gemmreɣ timucuha ɣer yimɣaren d temɣarin n tura, ad tent-skelseɣ, ad tent-rreɣ d iḍrisen deg yiwen n wammud. Maca ufiɣ-d abriḍ-nniḍen. Ferneɣ kra n tmucuha i d-wwin kra n yimeskaren imeqqranen am L. Frobenius, T. Amrouche, M. Mammeri, … Iḍrisen-a d tisuqqilin ɣer tefransist n tmucuha n Leqbayel n tallitin yezrin. Amedya n L. Frobenius dɣa weḥd-s. Di tazwara n lqern wis XX, Frobenius ijmeɛ-d timucuha n Leqbayel n tallit-nni ; qqaren-d yewwi yid-s amsuɣel (ṭrejman) i tent-id-yerran ɣer tefransist, sakkin yerra-tent netta ɣer talmanit, qqimen yidlisen-nni deg temkerḍiyin n tmurt n Lalman yuli-ten uɣebbar. D Meqqran Feṭṭa i ten-id-yerran ɣer tefransist di taggara n yiseggasen n 1990. Axeddim-iw nekki d tiririt n tsuqqulin-a ɣer laṣel-nsent, ɣer teqbaylit. Yewwi-d fell-aneɣ ihi, d lwaǧeb ad d-nessuɣel ɣer teqbaylit ayen akk ay uran s tefransist, gar-asent tisuqqilin, yimeskaren imeqqranen, gar-asen wid i d-bedreɣ iwsawen akked wiyiḍ. Cukkeɣ tisenfal i d-wwin yimeskaren-nneɣ imeqqranen sɛant ayen ur sɛint ara tsenfal n tmucuha i yezmer umdan ad d-yegmer ass-a – ma yuɣ lḥal mazal llant, ur ngirent ara. Tisenfal-a ihi (i d-rriɣ ɣer teqbaylit), si tama, d timzikanin ; si tayeḍ, d tisenfal i d-iɛeddan ɣef « wallaɣen imeqqaren », am L. Frobenius-Fetta, Mammeri, Amrouche d wiyaḍ.
- D amedya, tamacahut Tislit n Wenẓard tasuqqilt n La fiancée du soleili yura Mɛemmri. Izwal n tmucuha-ya mgaraden cwiṭ, neɣ ala ?
K.B. La fiancée du soleil mačči d Mɛemri i tt-yuran ! D tamacahut tamzikit n Leqbayel i yessuqel ɣer tefransist. Isem-is aḥeqqani/anaṣli s teqbaylit ? Wissen ! Nekki giɣ-as isem n Tislit n Wenẓar, daya.
- Asuqel n tmucuha n teqbaylit ɣer tutlayin tibeṛṛaniyin yerẓa cwiṭ seg tulmisin timensayin n tmacahut taqbaylit, neɣ ala ?
K.B. Ma tebɣiḍ timucuha n Leqbayel s « tulmisin timensayin », llant, nadi kan fell-sent. Maca tamiḍrant-a n « tasekla timawit » – nekki semmaɣ-as anda-nniḍen tamaweyt – tuḥwaǧ askasi, nekki aṭas i xedmeɣ di taɣult-a. Yiwet si tecraḍ n tewsatin n tmaweyt akked yiḍrisen-nsent d ta : yal aḍris ɣur-s tisenfal, rnu tisenfal-a ur ɛdilent ara ; mgaradent tikwal deg uzwel, tikwal deg teɣzi, acku llant tirummidin. Maca tulmisin n uḍris n tsekla, abeɛda tamacahut, d ccbaḥa-ines, d aɣanib n (t)amawey(t)– meḥsub win d-yewwin/d-yeḥkan aḍris. Ur cukkeɣ ara tella tsenfelt n tmacahut X neɣ Y i yifen – di ccbaḥa, deg uɣanib – tin i d-yewwi Frobenius, Mammeri, T. Amrouche. Maca ahat d aserwes ussnan i izemren ad d-yesken aya.
- Tuget n tmucuha n teqbaylit newṛet-itent-id seg tgemmi taseklant n lejdud. Ur yugit ara usnulfu n tmucuha timaynutin. Deg wammud Tislit n Wenẓartedda-d tmacahut i d-tesnulfaḍ : Credma d sebɛa watmaten. Acuɣer ulac aṭas n usnulfu deg tewsit-a n tsekla ?
K.B. Iswi-inu nekki d asdukkel n tegumma n tmucuha timzikanin deg yiwen n udlis, am Tislit n Wenẓar. Maca yezmer umdan n tura, ma yehwa-yas, ad d-yesnulfu timucuha timaynutin, timiranin, am Credma d sebɛa watmaten-is. Awal ɣef timiḍrant tafelsafant « asnulfu » ɣezzif, maca ad d-nawi fell-as abruy. Asnulfu, s umata, d amsal n umaynut s wayen yellan yakan. Lavoisier, amassan n tekrura, yeǧǧa-d awal : « Rien ne se crée, rien ne se perd, tout se transforme. » Ula di tẓuri, ula di tsekla, akka i ḍerrunt temsal. Ulac la création ex nihilo. Asnulfu aseklan ihi d amsal n wayen yellan yakan, am wakken txeddem tmeṭṭut di tenwalt (takuzint) : ad tessexleḍ buhan n yisafaren n wučči, ad ten-terwi, ad d-tessufeɣ tigella, ta bninet, tayeḍ txuss. Neẓra, lxalat tiɛewwacin, tid yessnen ad nawlent, qlilit… am yimura.
- Tuget n wawalen-a iqburen ad naf asegzi-nsen deg usegzawal Issin (ama d Issin amezwaru (2010), ama d Issin wis sin (2017)). Efk-aɣ-d assaɣ yellan gar tira-inek taseklant akked wummuɣ n wawalen deg yisegzawalen-inek Issin.
K.B. Wissen ma fehmeɣ asteqsi-inek, maca nekki mi ara ttaruɣ, ur seqdaceɣ ara asegzawal, ama d Issin, ama d wayeḍnin. Nekki mi ara ttruɣ aḍris, ttaruɣ ttɛawadeɣ-as taɣuri; tikwal ttekkseɣ awalen, tifyirin ; tikwal, rennuɣ-d.
- Deg yiḍrisen n udlis Tislit n Wenẓar, llan wawalen d iqburen, ahat nezmer ad d-nini d awalen ur sexdamen ara yimsawalen n tmucuha zik. D acu ara d-tiniḍ?
K.B. Ahat dayen rriɣ-d yakan ɣef tuttra-ya, mi d-wwiɣ awal ɣef tsenfal n yiḍrisen. Tura yessefk ad d-iniɣ kra ɣef taɣult n usuɣel si tutlayt ɣer tayeḍ, aladɣa si tefransist ɣer teqbaylit. Amsuɣel yesseqdac ayen yessen, ayen iwulmen. Rnu timsal-a n « umawal aqbur » uḥwaǧent ahat asegzi. Aleggem n tutlayt, aladɣa aleggem n teqbaylit, yemxalaf seg umdan ɣer wayeḍ, si tsuta ɣer tayeḍ. Tin ɣur-s, yezmer ad d-iban wawal d aqbur i yimeɣri, maca d uzzil i umaru, am nekki.
- (Tasekla timawit, asnulfu … )Mi ara nɣer tamacahut Tislit n Wenẓar neɣ tullist Tuɣalin n Weqcic Iijaḥen, ad nḥulfu sɛant tulmisin n wungal. Acuɣer Mass Buɛmara iɣull-aɣ, ur aɣ-d-yuri ara ungal s teqbaylit ?
K.B. Ahat tebɣiḍ ad d-tiniḍ Ma txemmeḍ ad d-sufɣeɣ ungal yiwen n wass deg wussan ? Tiririt-iw d ta : ahat yiwen n wass ad d-begseɣ i wungal. Maca wi iyi-icban nekki ur cukkeɣ ara belli tira n wungal txulef tin n wammud n tullizin, neɣ ammud n tmucuha.
- Mass Kamal Buɛmara ur t-nwala ara ixeddem tiɣuriwin, ur yettmeslay ara ɣef tsekla n tsuta n wass-a, ur isebɣas ara imura imaynuten, ladɣa ilemẓiyen. Acu ssebba n waya ?
K.B. Am wakken i nnumeɣ qqareɣ-t-id, yessefk ad nesteqsay ɣef wayen i yexdem umdan X neɣ Y, mačči ɣef wayen ur ixdim ara. Du point de vue méthode et méthodologique, c’est important. Maca ad d-rreɣ s tumert ɣef « tmuɣliwin »-a ur ndetta (nseḥḥa) ara maḍi. Ɣef wayen yerzan asebɣes n « yimura imaynuten », tzemreḍ ad twaliḍ tizwar ay uriɣ i wid d tid i d-yessufɣen idlisen tineggura-ya ; ur cfiɣ ara acḥal n tezwar ay uriɣ, maca ur cfiɣ ara yessuter-yi-d yiwen, ama d argaz, ama d tameṭṭut, ad as-aruɣ tazwart i udlis-is, …ur cfiɣ ara nniɣ-as Xaṭi. D amedya, di yunyu 2023 kan, uriɣ snat n tezwar i sin n yimdukkal.
Ɣef wayen yerzan tiɣuriwin, yessefk ad d-iniɣ ayagi : lḥirfa-inu nekki mačči d azɣan aseklan ; asadur-inu, uqbel ad awiɣ lantrit, d aselmad-amnadi di Tesdawit n Bgayet. Inuda-inu ussnanen wwin-d ɣef tmaweyt, aladɣa tamedyezt n zik. Maca deg uḥric n uwelleh akked usẓayer (encadrement) n yinelmaden, aṭas ay wellheɣ, aṭas i ixeddmen tizrawin-nsen (turagt n 4 iseggasen, majister, dukṭura) s lmendad-iw ɣef yimeskaren imiranen, yecban Muḥya, Matub, Belɛid At ɛli, Mezdad, Ɛellic, Sadi, Tazaghart, d wiyiḍ. Wi iyi-icban nekki, si 2005-2006 d tasawent, tessawel-iyi-d tutlayt-nneɣ, meḥsub ǧǧiɣ tasekla-nni, rriɣ-tt gar tacciwin. Amahil ɣef tutlayt yettban-iyi-d d axatar, yezwar amahil ɣef tsekla. D ayen i yi-iǧǧan suliɣ-d kra n yisenfaren, am Ilugan n tira (2005)… , Amawal n tesnukyest (2007), Issin1 (2010), Issin 2 (2017), d wiyiḍ ur d-neffiɣ ɣer teẓrigin. Taneggarut n tneggura : ur ilaq ara kunwi s yilemẓiyen ad tettḥirem, rǧut nnuba-nwen. Tutlayt-nneɣ, tasekla-nneɣ, idles-nneɣ melmi aya kan i kecmen s aɣerbaz d tesdawit, deg yiseggasen n 1990 d tasawent. Ass-a (2023) ttwaliɣ aṭas n yisdawanen i gan tizrawin n dukṭura di taɣult n Uzɣan n tsekla n teqbaylit. Isdawanen-a di Tsegwin n tmaziɣt akk i d-ffɣen ; yal yiwen ɣef wanwa ameskar, neɣ aḍris iɣef d-yewwi awal. Ad d-bedreɣ kan kra seg-sen : M. Djellaoui, M.-A. Salhi, A. Ameziane, A. Rabehi, S. Ayad, F. Hacid, N. Sadi, F. Achili, S. Mohand Saidi. Ma ttuɣ kra n yiwen ad iyi-isuref.
- Yal aḍris i d-turiḍ deg udlis Tislit n Wenẓar yesɛa anamek usrid, sɛan daɣen anamek afelsafi uffir. Anamek-a wis sin ad yiwɛir i yimeɣri ad as-ifaq neɣ yezmer ad yefhem ayen ur d-yeqsid ara umaru. Efk-aɣ-d kra n yimedyaden n yinumak ifelsafiyen i d-yeddan deg wammud-a.
K.B. Ih, tella tɣuri, tella tɣuri. Yezmer yiwen ad iɣer aḍris, ad yerr lwelha-s ɣer umawal kan i yesseqdec umaru, neɣ ɣer yismawen n yimudam i yellan deg uḍris. Maca yal aḍris ɣur-s anamek (neɣ inumak) lqayen. D amedya, tamacahut n Briruc i d-yettban sufella d aḍris yesseḍsayen cwiṭ, tesɛa anamek alqayan, deg-s tifelseft n ddunit. Hattan ihi tɣuri-inu. Iwudam-nni i yellan di tmacahut wa yeqqen ɣer wayeḍ, wa sennig wayeḍ. Asmi i d-yenṭeq Umcic, yenna Nekki ad ččeɣ Aɣerda, dɣa wiyiḍ akk neṭqen-d, uggaden ɣef yiman-nsen, wa yuggad wayeḍ. Ihi ula d imdanen d tɣawsiwin di tudert-nneɣ akka : yal yiwen yeqqen ɣer wayeḍ, wa nnig wayeḍ.
Lyes Belaidi
25-06-2023